Velma Perry

Heather Giuffre: So, I guess my first question for you, Velma, would be how did your family get to the Chapell Hill area?

Velma Perry: [Laughter]

HG: [Laughter]

VP: Well, my family got to the Chapel Hill area back in the 1800 and something. I think they got there mostly in 1840. The University up here I thought-- was that 1800 or 1700?

HG: That-- it was created in, I think, 1789.

VP: 1789, yeah.

HG: Yeah.

VP: Oh, course they mostly was here anyway. During the war time-- nah, I believe it’s not-- during the war time that England and America was over-- oh it’s worse than that-- when they’re in-- do you know what that’s called? You know, that war?

HG: Yeah, the Revolutionary--

VP: That, that--

HG: War, yeah.

VP: That, what did you call it, you know. HG: Yeah, yeah. The American Revolution.

VP: Yeah. When the war started-- lost-- when it ended, they had an Earl Bobby. He was from England. Earl, England, Bobby. And when that ended he was here. He owned a great big piece of land. Might have owned a whole lot of land here. In fact, I think he kind of owned half of North Carolina. He owned them everywhere. Hillsborough, everywhere, and he had brought his English slaves over with him when he was here. I guess he brought them when they was fighting I don't want to know.

HG: [Laughter]

VP: But that’s where he brought his English slaves over. And he had his two-- three children. Had two daughters and one son. [He] had slaves all over the place. All over except for his land. Everywhere had slaves. And Jess Hargraves married one of his daughters. And they were here- all of them was here I think, and he gave Jess Hargraves forty slaves. Forty slaves. And, you know, Jess Hargraves owned property all roundabout Meadowmont and all down there, way back down there somewhere. All on that area and all back up this way and every which way. All which way. And then his son was named after his daddy- he’s a junior. Earl Bobby. That’s Earl Bobby was. And he was a junior. Now, he had all his slaves and he had forty slaves. Which his wife’s daddy owned. He owned it all. [Laugther]

HG: Mhmm.

VP: You know what-- and everything. He owned the whole place it looked like to me. He had a great bit. And they were all round it-- they said all ways round here-- they owned every place. Now, I think the University, was founded in 1700 wasn’t it?

HG: Yeah, the late 1700s, yeah. VP: Late in 1700.

HG: Yeah.

VP: Now, the University wanted to, the people wanted to build a university. Now, the slaves they didn’t need to be bought-- they were English slaves. Brought them on the way-- they were English slaves. And they wanted to place to build the University-- whoever it was I don’t know who would want to do that. And Jess Hargraves gave them the property--gave them a great big piece of his-- not all of it. But he gave them a great big part, the part to put the University on.

HG: Mhmm.

VP: And so now they got the property and everything. But you’ve got to put some buildings on it, and all that kind of stuff. And you know who build it? The slaves. [Laughter]

HG: [Laughter]

VP: The slaves built it. And I’m sure that my, what you call them was -- this is my mother’s family--

HG: Mhmm.

VP: And my great-grandmother and great-grandfather was his slaves. His slaves, that’s why my family’s are Hargraves. They were Jess Hargraves’ slaves. [Laughter] Then my grandmother-- great-grandmother and my great-grandaddy. They were slaves though. I can-- mostly if they was English-- they must have known how to build before they got here, because he had them all here. And his son -- he gave his son this area over this way, and someways all in this place. (6:04). Because at the end of this street-- there was Bobby people that lived at the bottom. [Laughter]

HG: Mhmm.

VP: Because they were his slaves. So the slaves was the ones that had to build the University. And then after they got it built and all they could work at the University, and they had to have cooks and maids and all that kind of stuff. His son sold some property here and Jesse would sell property you too-- and a lot of times our -- they would do that and the slaves was--came over. They was putting them over here, I think, more. Must’ve put them over here. Because it was close to the University. Because you see where they lived, well they had property and they lived way down some way from here, you know where?

HG: Mhmm.

VP: All out-- they had to come to work in the morning. [Laughter]

HG: [Laughter]

VP: And so that was mostly why they did it. And, right here in this neighborhood now-- see that house right over there?

HG: Mhmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

VP: That house right side here--

HG: Mhmm

VP: That house in 2-0-4 was a hundred and twenty years old. Oh, so now it’s about a hundred and thirty-one, isn’t it?

HG: Wow, yeah. [Laughter]

VP: About a hundred and thirty years there- same house. People live in it [laughter] right now. And I think that you will find about one or two more on down further more, if you go down. Because this is the street most--not only this street, but this was the neighborhood that they lived in. So most of this neighborhood was nothing but black people.

HG: Mhmm.

VP: The white people was across the street. You know, on-- this is Church Street and on the other side of Church Street is white people. That was white people on that street side. And we on this side. [Laughter]

HG: Uh-huh.

VP: And then-- and back on ways back up in there some of them got-- back up there-- so most of the people that live here, just like we have, we’ve been here all our lives. [Laughter]

HG: Wow.

VP: We didn’t come here, we were been here. HG: Mhmm.

VP: Born here!

Velma Perry tells about holiday dances in Northside.

To hear more from Velma Perry, listen to her full oral history "Velma Perry - On the history and future of Northside."

In the interview Ms. Perry discusses the early history of the Northside community going back to the founding of the University and the introduction of slaves to the area. She then goes on to describe her family history, including her grandfather’s work as an undertaker and a carpenter who built many of the houses in the area. She also discusses her grandmother’s small grocery store in the neighborhood as well as her parent’s jobs at the University. Ms. Perry detailss the first schools in the area as well as the founding of St. Paul AME Church. She then goes on to discuss her time at college as well as her mother’s struggle with diabetes, followed by details on the social life of the neighborhood when she was growing up. She specifically details the Christmastime festivities, including the dances and parties held every night during the season. She also touches on the changing composition of the neighborhood, as well as the influx of student renters and the associated problems of noise issues. Ms. Perry goes into great detail on the Town’s plans for public housing in the area, and the ways in which they evolved over time. She also describes a government program that aimed to relocate Northside residents in order to then replace them with student renters- all without the knowledge of Northside residents. She also details various town plans that she took issue with as well as initiatives and ordinances that she herself was involved in. She also details her work experience in the area in addition to her volunteer work with the local Democratic Party.

This interview with Velma Perry captures her time growing up in the Tin Top neighborhood of Chapel Hill. Velma Perry’s mother was one of Luther Hargrave’s and Della Weaver’s nineteen children. She recounts how her family has lived in the Tin Top neighborhood for generations, where her father helped build the houses with tin roofs that gave the community its name. Ms. Perry reflects on growing up in a tight knit neighborhood where everyone looked after one another and the different ways they took care of one another during difficult times. The Great Depression set the scene for much of her youth as she remembers the odd jobs her family did to get by. When she was not working Ms. Perry speaks about her engagement in community organizing, which started during President Franklin Roosevelt’s run for a second term. She discusses where she learned her passion for serving her community and describes the different work she has done over the years to empower her neighbors and family members.

This interview is part of a group of interviews conducted by Susan Simone exploring the lives and struggle of various members of the Northside community: a historically black and primarily residential neighborhood located immediately northwest of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and downtown Chapel Hill, NC. The community has long been involved in a struggle to prevent developers from buying up property to build new and expensive housing developments that would break up the black community and drive low-income residents out of Chapel Hill, as Northside contains the majority of the remaining low-income housing in the city.