Charlene Smith - on her parents monumental impact on education in Chapel Hill (clip)
Interviewed by Bob Gilgor on February 21, 2001
RG: What is it that, what are the contributions that your mother made that allowed a school to be named after her?
CS: Just the longevity of teaching in this community as long she did.
RG: 1932 till —
CS: What was it, I know they had taught over 60-some years in this particular community together, when you look at their years together. So you're talking 30- plus years on both parts. That's a lot of years to give to one community.
RG: You bet. Now if she was teaching during integration, which was '66, so she had to teach for at least 34 years.
CS: Right.
RG: That's a nice track record.
CS: Right. It is, a very long time. In the same place. So, and most of the students had gone to her at one time in elementary school, whether it would have been fourth grade, sixth grade, or fifth grade, so those same students would have had some kind of experience with her prior to them getting into high school.
RG: Do you remember - 1 know you were off to college when your father left Lincoln and went to the integrated Chapel Hill High School. But you must have come home for breaks and then summertime. Can you recall discussions or observations about your father at that time?
CS: I just know my feeling was that when it had to occur, I didn't think it was fair, I didn't like it. I'm sure he had to have felt some adjustment, and some sadness, where he had been the boss for years and years and years, and making do with being that other schools might not have had to make to. And then when there's an opportunity to be in a new facility, and he had more experience than his female counterpart, for that decision to be made, it had to be a hurtful one. There's no way it could not be.
RG: Did he voice that to you or to your mother?
CS: Not really, but I think you would just know that it was something he wished had not happened.
RG: I hear comments from other people I've interviewed, like they watched Mr. MacDougal, Principal MacDougal wither away.
CS: Uh huh. Well, I don't know if he was withering away, but he clearly was in an adjustment. And it wasn't a pleasant adjustment. It was a sad adjustment. Because it was not fair. It really should not have been, but it was.
RG: Who made that decision? Do you know?
CS: I guess the Board. The board of Education.
RG: Did he have a chance to argue it?
CS: I don't know. I don't remember that happening.
RG: Now, at the high school, the core curriculum teachers were all white. And there were a few black teachers there who were teaching shop, typing; Miss Battle taught French, Miss Pope taught Home Economics -
CS: Home Ec, right.
RG: And did your father or mother ever discuss that aspect of the integration?
CS: I don't know if they would discuss it, but clearly we all were aware that it was a difference from being at Lincoln and being at Chapel Hill High. And the people who were at Chapel Hill High were the people who had been at Lincoln. There was a difference. But now like I say, I didn't experience a lot of that, because I didn't attend Chapel Hill High. So I don't really know how that was. I would think that it would have to have been a difficult thing, not only for my dad, but for the teachers who did move into that facility, and for the students who moved in also. Because they didn't have their own place any more.
RG: Do you remember any of the history of that time?
CS: Well I know there was, I mean, integration was a struggle for everybody, everywhere you went. Again, I did not have to deal with that aspect, because I also went to a black school. Hampton University. So again, I did not have to deal with that element as much, until later.
RG: So your dad stayed on at the new high school for just a couple of years?
CS: And then - yes, and then transferred to being the director of adult education.
RG: Was he happier in that role?
CS: He was happiest at being principal of Lincoln. OK? (laughs) Nothing else could match, you know. Chapel Hill High was a new building, whatever, that could not match being the principal of Lincoln. Being a director of adult education, that could not match being the principal of Lincoln. And the effects that he had and the students that he was involved with.
