Kathy Atwater

"You can’t have Hargraves without A.D. Clark Pool. And you can’t have A.D. Clark Pool without Hargraves. They’re just meshed together because it’s just a perfect match.

- Kathy Atwater

Kathy Atwater recounts her childhood visiting the Hargraves Community Center and the Adolphus D. Clark pool. Hargraves is a source of many fond memories for Ms. Kathy, where she went for kindergarten, first grade, and summer camp. She describes how Hargraves was first funded, built, and run by people who lived in the Northside neighborhood. She explains how the town government taking charge has led to improved facilities and more overall safety, but community members were not involved in important decisions regarding how the space should be used. Hargraves has served as the largest community center in Chapel Hill, and as she got older Ms. Kathy would attend monthly meetings to learn about local goings-on and any disputes. She explains how important the A.D. Clark Pool was for the kids growing up as the only public outdoor pool. Like Hargraves, the A.D. Clark pool was made possible by community members giving their funds, time, and work. During the yearly pool parties, hosted by the Jackson Center and Hargraves Center, people share stories of their time spent at the A.D. Pool and Hargraves. Atwater concludes by hoping that there can be more opportunities to share history, so people can learn how Hargraves and the pool were made possible by community members working together and supporting each other.

"…People in this community knew the importance of faith especially during the times that they had to do for themselves, maintain their own, work for a little of nothing, but yet still be able to have their own home, be able to send their children to college. Those things. It was their faith."

- Kathy Atwater

Ms. Atwater discusses her faith and its importance in her life. She highlights her upbringing at First Baptist Church and memories at church events and programs. She discusses how her faith was tested in her transition to college and how her support system helped her navigate the transition. She reflects on the role of drama ministry in church outreach and how it has helped build community and share her faith with people outside of her church. She discusses how her current church, Christian Faith Center, has taught her about the Bible and how she embodies Biblical teachings in her life. Ms. Atwater also talks about her faith as a way to cope through life’s ups and downs. Lastly, she talks about the role of faith within her family across generations and the importance of faith in the Northside community.

"...informed me to take this letter home to your mama ‘Cause you are going to Chapel High School next year.’ And I said, ‘No, I’m not’. And they said, ‘Yes you are.’ Cause they hand-picked the Blacks that they would send to Chapel Hill High School."

- Mae McLendon

In this oral history, Ms. Mae and Ms. Kathy share their experiences growing up in the Northside and Pine Knolls communities. They provide an incredibly nuanced understanding of the social impacts of the education system as they grew up during the transition from voluntary to mandatory integration. Both women provide especially salient insights into teen pregnancy, the importance of community and family, and the discrepancies between the way they were raised to the standards today. Both women remember the very strong stance their families took in shielding them and the other children in the community from some of the harsher realities of the time they were living in, to allow them a chance at a normal childhood. Especially, how this has impacted them as adults and how grateful they are for their parents' protection. Without it, they would have had to learn about critical historical events such as Ruby Bridges attending a white school, the Civil Rights Movement, etc. from media that was not kind to Black people or their stories. This transitions especially well into the discussion regarding media today and the importance of seeing people in nuanced ways. While communities today are generally more open-minded, there is a push to categorize people, professions, etc. For the sake of social and political gain, Ms. Mae and Ms. Kathy advise against that. They end the interview by discussing the importance of being open-minded, learning from elders, and embracing the communities that we are a part of.

"Everybody looked out for everybody."

- Kathy Atwater

This interview mainly focuses on Wanda Weaver’s mother and father/Kathy Atwater’s aunt and uncle, as well as the past and present dynamics of the Northside community. Ms. Wanda and Ms. Kathy show pictures of their mother and father/aunt and uncle, as well as discuss what they did for the community. Both parents were heavily involved in the community and had a giving spirit to everyone. They looked out and gave a helping hand to whomever needed it. Ms. Wanda and Ms. Kathy then discuss their contributions during the civil rights movement. They were only elementary aged during the time so they did not participate. They did not recognize race as a problem due to them being shielded and protected by those who loved them. The latter part of the interview primarily discusses current youth involvement in Northside, as well as changes in the neighborhood and community members’ participation in decisions regarding those changes. Ms. Weaver discusses ways that churches are currently trying to involve youth in the Northside community through outreach programs. Ms. Atwater also talks about programs such as Learning Across Generations through which the community is partnering with the school system to increase awareness of Northside history and community participation amongst the youth. The interview then transitions into conversation about the increased number of students and city-like buildings in and around the community. Ms. Weaver and Ms. Atwater both stress that it is important for community members to voice their opinions about these changes and work together to formulate a community-based response. The interview ends with Ms. Weaver and Ms. Atwater sharing the impact that the Northside community has had on their lives.

To learn more about Wanda Weaver's search for her mother's music, click here to read the article, "The Search For Susie Weaver's 'Freedom In Chapel Hill'," from WUNC.

Ms. Atwater gives an overview of food access in the community when she was growing up and how her family’s attitudes toward food have developed over the course of her life. Starting with a discussion of her mother’s kitchen and garden, she describes the role of food in her family and in the neighborhood community, and highlights the importance of food as a centerpiece for social gatherings and celebrations. She discusses how she learned some cooking techniques from her mother and her uncle, and how she is still learning and changing her methods. She recalls the different restaurants, grocery stores and local markets in the neighborhood, such as the Country Junction, Bill’s Barbecue, Hollywood Grill, Mama Dip’s, Dillard’s Barbecue, Pan-Pan Restaurant, Cliff’s Meat Market, Weaver Store on Brooks Street, Mason’s Store, Fowler’s, and A&P.

Kathy Atwater (KA): My mom always made sure there was food, not just for me and my dad, but for anybody who came by.

Monica Palmeira (MP): Really?

KA: Anybody that wanted anything, you know hungry or just came to visit, [she] always offered, so I have the habit of if anybody come in can I offer you something. Cause that’s–

MP: Engrained [Laughter]

KA: That’s how I was raised! [Laughter]

MP: Absolutely.

KA: So that kitchen was great. It was, a lot of good food came out of there, a lot of good food. And I learned some cooking there, my mom wasn’t an elaborate cook, she just did basic foods, but it was all good.

MP: What were some of your, like as a child, did you have any favorites, like when you said there were a lot of smells. If you knew you had this one particular smell, you were already excited about it. Do you have any specifics?

KA: I always liked Thursdays because that was, compared to most people, Thursday was our fish day, because that’s when the fish came in fresh on Thursday, and so we would go to the Cliff Meat Market and get the fish and pork chops. So fish and pork chops every Thursday.

MP: Nice. Very nice.

Kathy Atwater (KA): Right across the street, that’s my grandmother’s house. But the yard behind it.

Monica Palmeira (MP): Oh, yeah.

KA: People –neighbors would plant–

MP: Really?

KA: –Plant their vegetables and whatever, and then of course everybody would share. At my home, my daddy had a small garden right beside the house. I think everybody had–pretty much had a garden.

KA: Everyone had a little something, yeah.

MP: Yeah, yeah. Everybody had a garden. The ones in this big house right here. 323 Lindsay. They had a garden in the back. This right here was a garden, where this house is now. That was a garden. And, so it was like a garden almost every other house.

KA: Wow.

MP: Yeah. Where Ms. Velma Perry lives, there was a garden behind her house.

KA: Oh, nice.

MP: So you got fresh vegetables. You got tomatoes, you got string beans, you got okra, collards, cabbage, onions, strawberries. You got just – cucumbers. All different kinds of vegetables.

KA: People were growing all those things.

MP: Mhm.

KA: Wow.

MP: It was great.

"So there would not be a University if there had not been the Blacks in this community to help build the University."

- Kathy Atwater

In the beginning of the interview, Ms. Atwater describes the history of her home, growing up in her neighborhood, and the significance of keeping her home in the family in order to continue an ongoing legacy. To Ms. Atwater, a home is more than a place of residence; it is a memorial, it is the material representation of a legacy. Throughout the interview, Ms. Atwater discusses why she chose to remain in Chapel Hill and the change she’s witnessed over the years. She describes how gentrification of the Northside community is a disgrace to those community members whose ancestors built the University. And she also discusses the importance of communication within the community between residents and students to make everyone feel safe, like she did growing up when everyone knew their neighbors. To Ms. Atwater, life is about serving others, especially her family and those within the community and she believes that we should all engage in our community like Jesus Christ did. Key components of Ms. Atwater’s life include her family, faith, and home, and while she’s preparing herself for the change to come to the Northside community, she thinks that with community engagement, change can and needs to happen in favor of those who built it.

Kathy Atwater: Everybody was just family. I mean even in the neighborhood with the families that were in the neighborhood we all looked after one another- nobody was left to themselves. If I did something wrong, of course the neighbors would, you know, tell me “Kathy you shouldn’t do that,” and then of course my mom would find out later and then we’d take of that. But it was good, it was good- you felt safe. You felt safe because you had people looking out for you, which is a little change now because of the number of people coming into Chapel Hill now. It’s not the same climate--

Alexa Lytle: Okay.

KA: -- as when I was growing up. I know that change happens, growth happens, that’s inevitable, because if something doesn’t grow, then it dies. So, I know that it needs to happen, but I like the fact that you’re wanting to incorporate student life with neighborhood life, you know, to get to know the community and the history behind it. And I think that’s where most of the hurt comes from, from those who are still here- that they remember how it used to be and how they felt like they had something whereas now it seems like everything around you is changing and you feel like you’re being pushed out, to make room for the university, to make room for everybody else instead of the ones who were here originally.