David Caldwell, Jr. - On high school football and basketball (clip)

David Caldwell (DC): The Tin Can…they used to run us out of there. Phew.

Della Pollock (DP): So the Tin Can, that was the basketball court.

DC: Yeah, the gym at UNC.

DP: Was it the same as Woolen? No?

DC: No, this is it. They called it the Tin Can because it was nothing but tin.

DP: And where was that?

DC: You know where the student- where Carmichael is? Yeah, you got Carmichael, I think there’s a swimming pool facing the building to the right? And there’s a new building right there…where that new building is.

DP: The student gym?

DC: The student- yeah, that’s where it was.

DP: So that’s where it was- sorta across the football [field].

DC: Yes, wooden- wooden track.

DP: I love this caption. It was ugly and it leaked.

DC: Yes.

DP: But students loved the Tin Can.

DC: It’s where we went to lift weights and I mean it was nasty, dusty. But, you know, in high school we had nowhere to go but UNC. And we’d go until we got run off.

DP: So there wasn’t any- there weren’t athletic facilities at the high school?

DC: No, no, no. If we had what those kids have now. Oh wow, we were…talking about taking the state championships–we would’ve been national champions. They even have a period during the day where they go and lift weights–a class–to go, a fitness class.

Kathryn Wall (KW): They just made you run a lot?

DC: That’s all we could do. And then, Coach Peerman wouldn’t allow us to, if there was grass on the field you couldn’t run on the grass. You had to stay in the rocks and the dirt. [He] would say, “Don’t get into the grass.”

DP: So when you said they ran you off-

DC: The cops…

DP: -you really weren’t supposed to be there.

DC: No. We were told over and over-

DP: But you did it over and over.

DC: We had no choice. I mean we had people like, well, Mr. Council was working, Mr. James Council, was working and a couple other guys on the weekend, you know they would know what’s going on and his boss would let us, he would let us slide a lot of the time.

DP: Yeah.

DC: But we would go down- we played- five of us played at the, where was it, the student housing on Franklin Street? They’re getting ready to tear it down?

DP: Oh- Granville Towers?

DC: Granville Towers.

DC: We would go up there and play. We played Don McCauley, [Jim] Webster, Judge Mattocks there were five of them…and Gene Washington (Note: This may be Gene Brown who was on the 1970 UNC football roster) I think, he was a freshman and we had our 5 guys from our high school basketball team playing there. And there were 400 to 500 people watching. The cops had to come and direct traffic to get everything- they told us you guys can’t come up here no more. We were like, “Man, come on.” You talking about gangs- we were going to UNC and playing them guys, and I mean we were giving them a run for their money.

DP: So the 400 or 500 people gathered-

DC: Yeah, just to watch a pickup game-

DP: Because of the players?

DC: Mhmm. Well, it was the UNC-Chapel Hill basketball and football players playing CHHS kids. And I mean, we were zoning- myself, Vadnay Cotton, Bruce Farrow, Vincent McCauley, a couple of other guys, and they were like, “woah, this is unbelievable.”

DP: Were you an all-Black team?

DC: At Chapel Hill High? Noooo.

DP: Were you the only one?

DC: No, no, we had… all those guys in this car were Black.

DP: So when people were- it was not just that it was the UNC team and the high school teams- there was definitely a racial element to it?

DC: Oh, yeah.

DP: These young Black kids.

DC: Oh yeah, absolutely. I’m gonna–Do you have a pencil?

Anna Spencer (AS): I do not have one.

DC: I just wanted to remember to…I’m going to get you this stuff on the high school teams and stuff and send them. I think I’ve got some pictures in the yearbook on that.

DP: But that would’ve been a big–that would’ve been a big moment when the police told you to stop.

DC: Oh god, yes.

DP: No wonder the police told you to stop.

DC: It jammed up and it was like, “Oh these kids…”